Don't hide menus

[Daniel]

On 2023-10-13 17:24, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:
> Am Freitag, dem 13.10.2023 um 17:08 +0200 schrieb Daniel:
>> I agree that the menus of these apps are complex. But that might be
>> in their nature.
> 
> Well, they are aware of it:
> https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/01/22/way-down-in-the-libreoffice-menus/
> 
>> I guess the Ribbon was a (maybe controversial) attempt to
>> solve this problem.
> 
> Yes, probably. With the result that you don't find things anymore at
> all. And Ribbons even more infringe the policy you refer to. They hide
> function from the user if they place it in (rather opaque) categories.
> 
>> But I think LyX with its hidden menus is actually
>> worse to figure out. I am still discovering (otherwise) hidden menu
>> entries and I have been using LyX for quite some time now.
> 
> I keep on discovering menu entries in LO and Word although they have
> been displayed all the time.
> 
> It might be different habits, but I search for menu entries when I need
> them. And this is when they are usually enabled.

The problem is that one does not even know what to look for if one 
doesn't know of a possible functionality. This seems even worse in LyX 
because it is in certain ways a more unique application.

> In context when they do not work at all they only distract attention.

I have not noticed that. I usually find that disabled menus are easy to 
disregard when I do not explicitly try to discover some function. And 
typically I have greater problems with disregarding stuff than other people.

Another problem with disappearing menus is that the other menus shift 
positions. That is a bit annoying too.

> If I want to learn about LyX's functionality, I consult the manuals.

I think people typically don't read software manuals. Maybe too bad but 
a fact that developers should honor. Maybe LyX users are different but I 
have my doubts.

>> If it is really necessary to cut down on menu entries in the "Insert"
>> menu when disabled entries get enabled: For example, create a
>> separate "References" menu.
> 
> References is just a single submenu in the Insert menu. That won't
> solve the problem. And, after all, if References are to be _inserted_,
> I would expect them under Insert.

I meant the group of "References" as in "Citation", "Cross-References", 
"Label", "Caption", etc. These are typically subsumed under "References" 
in other word processors. (But if more entries for such a menu are 
needed, then entries in "List/TOC/References" might be added as well.)

Daniel