Font size names

Daniel xracoonx at gmx.de
Mon Aug 10 15:09:28 UTC 2020


On 10/8/20 17:06, Kornel Benko wrote:
> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:31:52 +0200
> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
> 
>> On 10/8/20 13:51, Kornel Benko wrote:
>>> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:21:56 +0200
>>> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
>>>    
>>>> On 2020-08-10 12:59, Daniel wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-08-10 12:42, Daniel wrote:
>>>>>> On 2020-08-10 12:08, Kornel Benko wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:32:35 +0200
>>>>>>> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>> On 2020-08-10 09:15, Kornel Benko wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:24:56 +0200
>>>>>>>>> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
>>>>>>>>>> Attached is a chart of LyX font sizes. Does anyone else find it
>>>>>>>>>> slightly
>>>>>>>>>> confusing that LyX uses two different naming schemes (in addition to
>>>>>>>>>> LaTeX)? Maybe some historic reason? If possible, I suggest to go for
>>>>>>>>>> only one naming scheme.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I guess the LaTeX naming scheme for large font sizes is a bit
>>>>>>>>>> non-descriptive (using capitals to indicate
>>>>>>>>>> comparatives/superlatives).
>>>>>>>>>> So, I guess that is why there is a deviation from LaTeX. I am
>>>>>>>>>> still not
>>>>>>>>>> fully sure that it is a good idea to use different names because
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> will have to remember two different schemes instead of one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LyX is _not_ latex. It describes the font sizes for a variety of
>>>>>>>>> output
>>>>>>>>> formats. Besides, the GUI is translatable. Only the English version
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> suit your needs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We do not expect our users are latex experts.
>>>>>>>>>> But insofar as the more descriptive names should stay, I suggest to
>>>>>>>>>> match Gui and LyX names in the following way (which actually helps to
>>>>>>>>>> create less of a rift between LaTeX and LyX):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - "Huger" (Gui name) instead of "Giant" (LyX name) because it matches
>>>>>>>>>> better the LaTeX naming (\Huge).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Gui/LaTeX names for smaller font sizes because they are more
>>>>>>>>>> descriptive, i.e. "Footnotesize" and "Scriptsize" (LyX name)
>>>>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>>>>> "Smaller" and "Smallest" (Gui name).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I guess the latter needs some argument: while there is no match of
>>>>>>>>>> sectioning sizes to large sizes because they depend on the class,
>>>>>>>>>> "footnotesize" and "scriptsize" match the respective sizes in classes
>>>>>>>>>> (as far as I know). So, it's helpful to know that if one wants to
>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>> other elements in the text.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While LyX _is_ not LaTeX, but isn't it _based on_ LaTeX (ideas).[1] And
>>>>>>>> I guess it's the most widely used output format. Also, that LyX is does
>>>>>>>> not explain why Gui and LyX names differ.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reading Intro.lyx, there is nowhere mentioned latex.
>>>>>>> The first line
>>>>>>>       LyX is a document preparation system.
>>>>>>> describes almost precisely as to what lyx is aimed to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, lyx is created also with latex in mind. But since we support
>>>>>>> other formats too,
>>>>>>> I don't see why we should be more latex centric.
>>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>> You are right, I forgot about the language translation issues. However,
>>>>>>>> I don't see why, at least in English the Gui and LyX names shouldn't
>>>>>>>> match. And then be translated from there. Here is a translation
>>>>>>>> friendly
>>>>>>>> version of my other suggestions with German examples:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why doesn't the GUI use the translated version of the LyX name?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you mean (I don't understand the term 'LyX name')?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "LyXname" is the name used in LyX's code for size names used in the
>>>>>> layout files. These differ from those used in the GUI, see my
>>>>>> attachment in the first message of the current threat.
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>> - "Riesiger" instead of "Gigantisch" (Gui and LyX name) because it
>>>>>>>> matches better the translated LaTeX naming (\Huge). (Here the German
>>>>>>>> version actually differs from the English version in that both Gui and
>>>>>>>> LyX names are the same. Good! But "Riesiger" would be a slightly better
>>>>>>>> as a translation of LaTeX's Huge, I think.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As said, we are not latex.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is a slightly more elaborate argument:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Riesiger" instead of "Gigantisch" (Gui and LyX name) because it
>>>>>> matches better the translated LaTeX naming (\Huge) *and why not match
>>>>>> it if we already use comparatives such as "larger" anyway*.
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>> - Translated LyX/LaTeX names (Previously, I mistakenly wrote "Gui name"
>>>>>>>> instead of "LyX name") for smaller font sizes because they are more
>>>>>>>> descriptive, i.e. "Fußnotengröße" and "Skriptgröße" (translated
>>>>>>>> LyX/LaTeX name) instead of "Kleiner" and "Sehr klein" (Gui name).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More descriptive yes, but the GUI is for a normal user better
>>>>>>> understandable IMHO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, in one way, the GUI is better understandable for a complete
>>>>>> typesetting notice. For example, this person might not know what
>>>>>> "script" means. However, in the font size chooser the sizes are
>>>>>> already ordered, so it might be no problem to deduce this. And
>>>>>> everyone not knowing the LyX internal translation, including the
>>>>>> notice and LaTeX expert, will be lost if they try to match the font
>>>>>> size of a footnote (or script).
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>>> The argument I gave seems to apply independent of translation, I think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, if using "footnotesize" and "scriptsize" turn out to be too
>>>>>>>> problematic because it does not make sense for some output formats,
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> I suggest to use the English Gui names as LyX names.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In summary, I still don't understand why
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. LyX names are not _closer_ to LaTeX names,
>>>>>>>> 2. English Gui and LyX names differ.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LyX (Though there seem to be some
>>>>>>>> mistakes on the page. It claims that the Table Editor and Math Editor
>>>>>>>> are WYSIWYG. I guess they are WYSIWYM, strictly speaking.--
>>>>>
>>>>> ps. Attached is my suggestion. The upshot would be that people familiar
>>>>> with LaTeX would basically have to remember only naming scheme and some
>>>>> names are more descriptive.
>>>>
>>>> Here are the alternatives as I see it:
>>>>
>>>> - Let the LyX names match more the LaTeX names, i.e. "Giant" becomes
>>>> "Huger".
>>>> - Let the LyX names match the Gui names (but different from the LaTeX
>>>> names).
>>>
>>> +1 from me.
>>
>> So you are suggesting to do both of those changes, right?

So, you are indifferent whether both should be called "Giant" or "Huger.

> No, only the last.
> 
>>>> I think that at least there is no reason for having *three* different
>>>> schemes.
>>>
>>> +1.
>>
>> I am still inclined that one rather than two size schemes is even better
>> and I like the extra information given by "footnotesize" and
>> "scriptsize". But I must confess that I am only using LyX with LaTeX and
>> don't have a good feel for LyX being used in other ways-- 
Daniel



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