Font size names
Kornel Benko
kornel at lyx.org
Mon Aug 10 11:51:33 UTC 2020
Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:21:56 +0200
schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
> On 2020-08-10 12:59, Daniel wrote:
> > On 2020-08-10 12:42, Daniel wrote:
> >> On 2020-08-10 12:08, Kornel Benko wrote:
> >>> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:32:35 +0200
> >>> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2020-08-10 09:15, Kornel Benko wrote:
> >>>>> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:24:56 +0200
> >>>>> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
> >>>>>> Attached is a chart of LyX font sizes. Does anyone else find it
> >>>>>> slightly
> >>>>>> confusing that LyX uses two different naming schemes (in addition to
> >>>>>> LaTeX)? Maybe some historic reason? If possible, I suggest to go for
> >>>>>> only one naming scheme.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I guess the LaTeX naming scheme for large font sizes is a bit
> >>>>>> non-descriptive (using capitals to indicate
> >>>>>> comparatives/superlatives).
> >>>>>> So, I guess that is why there is a deviation from LaTeX. I am
> >>>>>> still not
> >>>>>> fully sure that it is a good idea to use different names because
> >>>>>> people
> >>>>>> will have to remember two different schemes instead of one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> LyX is _not_ latex. It describes the font sizes for a variety of
> >>>>> output
> >>>>> formats. Besides, the GUI is translatable. Only the English version
> >>>>> would
> >>>>> suit your needs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We do not expect our users are latex experts.
> >>>>>> But insofar as the more descriptive names should stay, I suggest to
> >>>>>> match Gui and LyX names in the following way (which actually helps to
> >>>>>> create less of a rift between LaTeX and LyX):
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - "Huger" (Gui name) instead of "Giant" (LyX name) because it matches
> >>>>>> better the LaTeX naming (\Huge).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Gui/LaTeX names for smaller font sizes because they are more
> >>>>>> descriptive, i.e. "Footnotesize" and "Scriptsize" (LyX name)
> >>>>>> instead of
> >>>>>> "Smaller" and "Smallest" (Gui name).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I guess the latter needs some argument: while there is no match of
> >>>>>> sectioning sizes to large sizes because they depend on the class,
> >>>>>> "footnotesize" and "scriptsize" match the respective sizes in classes
> >>>>>> (as far as I know). So, it's helpful to know that if one wants to
> >>>>>> match
> >>>>>> other elements in the text.
> >>>>
> >>>> While LyX _is_ not LaTeX, but isn't it _based on_ LaTeX (ideas).[1] And
> >>>> I guess it's the most widely used output format. Also, that LyX is does
> >>>> not explain why Gui and LyX names differ.
> >>>
> >>> Reading Intro.lyx, there is nowhere mentioned latex.
> >>> The first line
> >>> LyX is a document preparation system.
> >>> describes almost precisely as to what lyx is aimed to.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, lyx is created also with latex in mind. But since we support
> >>> other formats too,
> >>> I don't see why we should be more latex centric.
> >>>
> >>>> You are right, I forgot about the language translation issues. However,
> >>>> I don't see why, at least in English the Gui and LyX names shouldn't
> >>>> match. And then be translated from there. Here is a translation
> >>>> friendly
> >>>> version of my other suggestions with German examples:
> >>>>
> >>>> Why doesn't the GUI use the translated version of the LyX name?
> >>>
> >>> What do you mean (I don't understand the term 'LyX name')?
> >>
> >> "LyXname" is the name used in LyX's code for size names used in the
> >> layout files. These differ from those used in the GUI, see my
> >> attachment in the first message of the current threat.
> >>
> >>>> - "Riesiger" instead of "Gigantisch" (Gui and LyX name) because it
> >>>> matches better the translated LaTeX naming (\Huge). (Here the German
> >>>> version actually differs from the English version in that both Gui and
> >>>> LyX names are the same. Good! But "Riesiger" would be a slightly better
> >>>> as a translation of LaTeX's Huge, I think.)
> >>>
> >>> As said, we are not latex.
> >>
> >> Here is a slightly more elaborate argument:
> >>
> >> "Riesiger" instead of "Gigantisch" (Gui and LyX name) because it
> >> matches better the translated LaTeX naming (\Huge) *and why not match
> >> it if we already use comparatives such as "larger" anyway*.
> >>
> >>>> - Translated LyX/LaTeX names (Previously, I mistakenly wrote "Gui name"
> >>>> instead of "LyX name") for smaller font sizes because they are more
> >>>> descriptive, i.e. "Fußnotengröße" and "Skriptgröße" (translated
> >>>> LyX/LaTeX name) instead of "Kleiner" and "Sehr klein" (Gui name).
> >>>
> >>> More descriptive yes, but the GUI is for a normal user better
> >>> understandable IMHO.
> >>
> >> Yes, in one way, the GUI is better understandable for a complete
> >> typesetting notice. For example, this person might not know what
> >> "script" means. However, in the font size chooser the sizes are
> >> already ordered, so it might be no problem to deduce this. And
> >> everyone not knowing the LyX internal translation, including the
> >> notice and LaTeX expert, will be lost if they try to match the font
> >> size of a footnote (or script).
> >>
> >>>> The argument I gave seems to apply independent of translation, I think.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, if using "footnotesize" and "scriptsize" turn out to be too
> >>>> problematic because it does not make sense for some output formats,
> >>>> then
> >>>> I suggest to use the English Gui names as LyX names.
> >>>>
> >>>> In summary, I still don't understand why
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. LyX names are not _closer_ to LaTeX names,
> >>>> 2. English Gui and LyX names differ.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LyX (Though there seem to be some
> >>>> mistakes on the page. It claims that the Table Editor and Math Editor
> >>>> are WYSIWYG. I guess they are WYSIWYM, strictly speaking.--
> >
> > ps. Attached is my suggestion. The upshot would be that people familiar
> > with LaTeX would basically have to remember only naming scheme and some
> > names are more descriptive.
>
> Here are the alternatives as I see it:
>
> - Let the LyX names match more the LaTeX names, i.e. "Giant" becomes
> "Huger".
> - Let the LyX names match the Gui names (but different from the LaTeX
> names).
+1 from me.
> I think that at least there is no reason for having *three* different
> schemes.
+1.
Kornel
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