Font size names

[Daniel]

On 2020-08-10 12:08, Kornel Benko wrote:
> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:32:35 +0200
> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
> 
>> On 2020-08-10 09:15, Kornel Benko wrote:
>>> Am Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:24:56 +0200
>>> schrieb Daniel <xracoonx at gmx.de>:
>>>    
>>>> Attached is a chart of LyX font sizes. Does anyone else find it slightly
>>>> confusing that LyX uses two different naming schemes (in addition to
>>>> LaTeX)? Maybe some historic reason? If possible, I suggest to go for
>>>> only one naming scheme.
>>>>
>>>> I guess the LaTeX naming scheme for large font sizes is a bit
>>>> non-descriptive (using capitals to indicate comparatives/superlatives).
>>>> So, I guess that is why there is a deviation from LaTeX. I am still not
>>>> fully sure that it is a good idea to use different names because people
>>>> will have to remember two different schemes instead of one.
>>>
>>> LyX is _not_ latex. It describes the font sizes for a variety of output
>>> formats. Besides, the GUI is translatable. Only the English version would
>>> suit your needs.
>>>
>>> We do not expect our users are latex experts.
>>>    
>>>> But insofar as the more descriptive names should stay, I suggest to
>>>> match Gui and LyX names in the following way (which actually helps to
>>>> create less of a rift between LaTeX and LyX):
>>>>
>>>> - "Huger" (Gui name) instead of "Giant" (LyX name) because it matches
>>>> better the LaTeX naming (\Huge).
>>>>
>>>> - Gui/LaTeX names for smaller font sizes because they are more
>>>> descriptive, i.e. "Footnotesize" and "Scriptsize" (LyX name) instead of
>>>> "Smaller" and "Smallest" (Gui name).
>>>>
>>>> I guess the latter needs some argument: while there is no match of
>>>> sectioning sizes to large sizes because they depend on the class,
>>>> "footnotesize" and "scriptsize" match the respective sizes in classes
>>>> (as far as I know). So, it's helpful to know that if one wants to match
>>>> other elements in the text.
>>
>> While LyX _is_ not LaTeX, but isn't it _based on_ LaTeX (ideas).[1] And
>> I guess it's the most widely used output format. Also, that LyX is does
>> not explain why Gui and LyX names differ.
> 
> Reading Intro.lyx, there is nowhere mentioned latex.
> The first line
> 	LyX is a document preparation system.
> describes almost precisely as to what lyx is aimed to.
> 
> Yes, lyx is created also with latex in mind. But since we support other formats too,
> I don't see why we should be more latex centric.
> 
>> You are right, I forgot about the language translation issues. However,
>> I don't see why, at least in English the Gui and LyX names shouldn't
>> match. And then be translated from there. Here is a translation friendly
>> version of my other suggestions with German examples:
>>
>> Why doesn't the GUI use the translated version of the LyX name?
> 
> What do you mean (I don't understand the term 'LyX name')?

"LyXname" is the name used in LyX's code for size names used in the 
layout files. These differ from those used in the GUI, see my attachment 
in the first message of the current threat.

>> - "Riesiger" instead of "Gigantisch" (Gui and LyX name) because it
>> matches better the translated LaTeX naming (\Huge). (Here the German
>> version actually differs from the English version in that both Gui and
>> LyX names are the same. Good! But "Riesiger" would be a slightly better
>> as a translation of LaTeX's Huge, I think.)
> 
> As said, we are not latex.

Here is a slightly more elaborate argument:

"Riesiger" instead of "Gigantisch" (Gui and LyX name) because it matches 
better the translated LaTeX naming (\Huge) *and why not match it if we 
already use comparatives such as "larger" anyway*.

>> - Translated LyX/LaTeX names (Previously, I mistakenly wrote "Gui name"
>> instead of "LyX name") for smaller font sizes because they are more
>> descriptive, i.e. "Fußnotengröße" and "Skriptgröße" (translated
>> LyX/LaTeX name) instead of "Kleiner" and "Sehr klein" (Gui name).
> 
> More descriptive yes, but the GUI is for a normal user better understandable IMHO.

Yes, in one way, the GUI is better understandable for a complete 
typesetting notice. For example, this person might not know what 
"script" means. However, in the font size chooser the sizes are already 
ordered, so it might be no problem to deduce this. And everyone not 
knowing the LyX internal translation, including the notice and LaTeX 
expert, will be lost if they try to match the font size of a footnote 
(or script).

>> The argument I gave seems to apply independent of translation, I think.
>>
>> However, if using "footnotesize" and "scriptsize" turn out to be too
>> problematic because it does not make sense for some output formats, then
>> I suggest to use the English Gui names as LyX names.
>>
>> In summary, I still don't understand why
>>
>> 1. LyX names are not _closer_ to LaTeX names,
>> 2. English Gui and LyX names differ.
>>
>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LyX (Though there seem to be some
>> mistakes on the page. It claims that the Table Editor and Math Editor
>> are WYSIWYG. I guess they are WYSIWYM, strictly speaking.-- 
Daniel